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how to talk to someone who won't listen

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how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:06 pm

x-x odd title, i know. o.o

so, the friend of mine, with the stunning female MG VT, is keeping her in one of these:
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without the divider, thankfully. most of you know, they're about a quart or so. as much as my bowls. >.>

i want to talk to her, explain to her that bettas are way happier in two or more gallons. BUT. she has a friend, with six bettas. who keeps hers in these:
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stunning, i know.

i tried to talk to the friend, and explain to her that bettas are happiest in larger tanks, but she INSISTS that she knows her bettas, and they're happiest in those tiny quart tanks, and freak out and pace in anything larger.

now, me? i've seen how happy a betta can be when upgraded from a half gallon, up to two gallons. my female CT was estatic when she was upgraded from a half gallon bowl, up to a two gallon Kritter Keeper. she explored for DAYS, and did this cute thing where she'd wiggle-swim up to the upper right corner, than coast down to the bottom left, the wiggle-swim up to the top right again, and would do that for an hour, like "look, Mom! i can SWIM!"

i fear for my friend's new, stunning girl, and want to show her how happy a betta can be when they have larger tanks, but don't know how to go about it. i posted up pics of my bettas on Facebook, and will offer to show her care sheets, but that's about all i can do. i don't wanna sound like a snob, or a fish nerd, and don't wanna lose a friend over a betta fish. i just want her new girl to be happy, healthy, and live a full life. :< any suggestions?
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by 2tall on Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:19 am

Tell her that she can exist in a closet, but shes probably much happier in a
apartment or house.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Nataliey on Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:51 am

F.Banks wrote:Tell her that she can exist in a closet, but shes probably much happier in a
apartment or house.

I can see what you're saying and i can see you are really trying to educate your friend maybe direct your friend here...not so people can tell her what to do, just so she can see what other people with bettas house them in as my smallest tank is 5.5 litres which is 1.4 US gallons, i can fit a filter and a heater with a small silk plant and a cave so the little guy can hide.

I have seen those boxes in the first picture and they are very small (understatement really) so i suppose its a good thing she has the divide out of it...my lfs where selling them i told them what i thought... Embarassed

Even if she where to get the tank underneath it would be more benefical for her betta...good luck with helping her:thumpup:
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:08 am

i posted pics of my darlings, and tell the story all the time of when my CT girl, Freya, got upgraded from a half-gallon bowl, to a 2-gallon Kritter Keeper(she was so cute... she'd wiggle-swim to the top right, then coast down to the bottom left, then do it again and again!). i KNOW my friend's female would be MUCH happier and healthier in a larger tank. i just gotta tell her, without seeming snobby, or like a fish nerd. ;A;
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by incognito on Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:12 pm

the estimate ratio of fish per tank is based around the minimun of 1" of fish per gallon (water volume not including gravel and ornaments)

The way I see it... we could live in a 6' x 6' room/prison cell 24 hours a day.. would we survive? .... yes!
Would we thrive?.. no!
would we be happier with a bit more space?.. yes!

If she'd like her fish to have a long life there is more chance of happening if the betta is in a more adequate sized tank. I personally think for long term it needs to be atleast 5 litres and up to 15 litres, once over that you often lose the fish in the tank just because of size proportions from a visual perspective.

this is also often an excuse for people using smaller tanks... the fish has no where to hide and rest so are constantly 'on display' ,long term stress like this also means a short lived betta!

Breeders will often jar fry in 1 ltr sized tubs, this is not long term but usually only for about 2-6 weeks until sold or mature enough to breed.As well as this, the jars and tubs are usually in a dedicated quiet spot, often in a fish room that won't have constant passing human or pet traffic to worry them. They get fuss its either clean out time, individual attention or feeding time!

Ask your friend to give you the benefit of the doubt and get a bigger tank... if it's too big for one then she could make it a sorority tank (or sell it to you?). Bigger tanks are also easier to keep stable, less temp fluctuations and a filter will reduce the time and effort involved in cleaning.

A tank that is lit and has room for plants and ornaments will be a much better feature than a minimal tiny tank.

Show her this thread voicing your concerns if you need to... she should atleast understand that you are trying to still be a good friend but can't help how you feel about the fish and that others with experience also feel the same way as you do.

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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:57 pm

all my bettas, except one, live in two gallon Kritter Keepers. they're like.... $10 at my local pet store. for the same price she's paying for those little boxes, i'm buying almost three times the room, and can set them up really beautifully with lots of plants and hiding holes for them. i've only had a few sick bettas since upgrading everyone, and one was from a mystery illness(he was a white betta, so if there was any signs, like Ick or Velvet, they were hidden), and two i'm thinking were from the 1.5 gallon storage bin(both bettas show the same symptoms, and i lost Gackt to it not too long ago. ;A; i feel horrible!).

the friend of my friend actually told me she won't read care sheets! she said her bettas tell her what they like, and they like quart tanks. .____. i don't know what to do with that girl, but don't want her talking my friend into keeping her girl in a small tank. if i had the money, i'd buy my friend a Kritter Keeper and some plants and hidey holes(give her the money via paypal, or buy them off petsmart.com or something and have them shipped to her house, since she's in a totally different state than i).
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by incognito on Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:31 pm

its hard hun but looks like this girl is going to learn the hard way Sad

all ou can really do is repeat what you say and help when the fish gets ill

it's unfortunate

I feel for you, i know how hard it is when someone just won't take a concerned comment. it's not fair on the fish but fingers crossed you'll get her persuaded to getting a new tank and mending the fish before it's too late to be saved as the time comes.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:51 pm

she already lost one, and won't tell me how old her oldest is. :/ i'm just gonna ignore that girl, and help my friend out. >.>; hopefully, she'll listen to me.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by 2tall on Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:35 pm

You could try explaining to her that it is a misconception that its a healthy
or acceptable environment for a Betta. The ones that benefit the most are the fish stores. The sales of the Betta, the worthless little tank that they probably make 500-700% profit. With no heater , hence a shorter life span and a new sale of a replacement Betta for the store.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:07 am

i talked to her, and offered to help her with anything she may need with the betta. even offered to give her some of my foods, since i have New Life Spectrum and Attison's brands. :d she seemed happy about it. now i really do hope i get the job i applied for! x3
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by 2tall on Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:17 pm

Hopefully she won't continue to turn a deaf ear! All you can do is try, but
be careful not to make her stubborn to the idea. Good luck for all involved!
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:45 pm

thanks. :d i'm thinking about mixing up some food for her. :d then, if i get the job at the pet store(which i'm hoping and preying i get), i offered to buy her lots of things for both her bettas(she stole them from her brother, who..... abuses them. they sit in stinkwater for days, before she cleans their tanks. poor babies). she seems pretty open to the idea of getting them bigger tanks, but doesn't have the funds to do so. xd
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Nataliey on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:49 am

Luimeril wrote:thanks. :d i'm thinking about mixing up some food for her. :d then, if i get the job at the pet store(which i'm hoping and preying i get), i offered to buy her lots of things for both her bettas(she stole them from her brother, who..... abuses them. they sit in stinkwater for days, before she cleans their tanks. poor babies). she seems pretty open to the idea of getting them bigger tanks, but doesn't have the funds to do so. xd

well done so happy your friend is happy to listen to your suggestions at least with the food just to start with Smile
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:56 am

yep. :3 sadly, her friend stopped messaging me. >.>; i don't think that girl will listen to me. :<
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by KalandraJane on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:56 am

By 'abuses them', I'm guessing he fights them? Well, laws about animal cruelty apply to all animals, and her brother should be reported.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by 2tall on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:57 pm

I agree with you on that KJ!
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by KalandraJane on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:27 pm

From reading your posts, I'm guessing this girl's brother is the betta-fighting scumbag, and she's trying to rescue some of them? To be honest I doubt you're going to get through to either of them, because she's learning all her 'care' methods from him, despite her good intentions.

If she really cares about protecting these fish, she needs to convince her brother to stop abusing them, not just steal his wounded cast-offs and have them die a lingering death from secondary infections in stinking, unsuitable conditions.

The best thing that can be done to protect these fish is for the boy to be reported to a prominent animal protection organisation and to the police. Frankly I think you're setting yourself up for frustration and upset, I know you have the welfare of the fish at heart but it sounds like an impossible situation with two people who have no intention of listening to you.

Also, regarding not wanting to 'lose a friend over a betta fish' - I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who supports animal abuse and won't take action or advice to care for their pets.
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Re: how to talk to someone who won't listen

Post by Luimeril on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:00 pm

oh, not at all! he just doesn't clean their tanks at all, and just feeds them by dumping pellets in their tanks. >.>;

nah, she knows now, how to care for them, and is trying her best to get them bigger tanks. i also made a mixed baggie of foods for her that should last her a year or longer, made of many high-quality foods i have. she does regular water changes on them now, and saw how happy her female was when she was placed in warmer water. i'm still slowly giving her tips on how to make them much, much happier, and she loves seeing them be happier, so i know she'll take my advice to heart. :3 sorry i didn't update this sooner. x-x
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